RKS Home Page
Welcome Public User | login
Johannes Kramer
Born : 03 Jun 1829
Attendorn, Kreis Olpe, NRW, Germany
Died : 28 Oct 1903
Loretto, TN
Age:74y 4m 25d
Father :
Descendants of Johann Cramer Johann Cramer (1802-1880)
Mother :
Descendants of Angela Langenohl Angela Langenohl (1803-1834)
Married :
Ancestors of Wilhelmina Belke Descendants of Wilhelmina Belke Wilhelmina Belke (1825-1912)
on 07 Jun 1853
in Attendorn, Westfalen, Prussia
Children :
Ancestors of Anna Kramer Anna Kramer (b. 1855)
Ancestors of Kathrin Kramer Descendants of Kathrin Kramer Kathrin Kramer (1856-1914)
Ancestors of Mary Kramer Descendants of Mary Kramer Mary Kramer (1859-1938)
Ancestors of Clara Kramer Descendants of Clara Kramer Clara Kramer (1862-1941)
Ancestors of William Kramer Descendants of William Kramer William Kramer (1865-1951)
Ancestors of Rosa Kramer Descendants of Rosa Kramer Rosa Kramer (1867-1943)
Ancestors of Mary Kramer Descendants of Mary Kramer Mary Kramer (1870-1911)
Ancestors of... Ancestors of John Kramer
Descendants of... Descendants of John Kramer
Immigrated : 1853
Germany to USA
Siblings :
Ancestors of Joh. Bernardus Cramer Joh. Bernardus Cramer (1832-1832)
Ancestors of Ben. Theodorus Cramer Ben. Theodorus Cramer (1835-1836)
Ancestors of Ben. Wilhelmus Cramer Ben. Wilhelmus Cramer (1837-1845)
Ancestors of Joh. Bernardus Cramer Joh. Bernardus Cramer (1841-1842)
Ancestors of Everhard Cramer Everhard Cramer (1843-1843)
Ancestors of Johannes Cramer Johannes Cramer (b. 1844)
Ancestors of Mar. Anna Eliz. Cramer Mar. Anna Eliz. Cramer (b. 1847)
Record Owner : rudy.r
Rel. to Owner : (3x)Great-Grandfather
Database ID : 577
Date Created : 18 Jan 2009
Last Updated : 27 Jul 2023

Date : 30 Oct 1903
Location : Sacred Heart Cemetery, Loretto, TN

Obituary dated 2 November 1903 in Loretto, TN:

On October 28 our dear friend John Kramer died after long and severe suffering, fortified by frequent reception of the Sacraments. He was born in Attenborn in the governmental district of Arnsberg in Prussia. On June 9, 1852, he married Wilhelmina Belke and in the same year came to America, where he lived for a long time in Westphalia, Mich., and then in the year 1872 came to Loretto, Tenn, where he has lived since. He leaves his wife and six children, 42 grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren. The burial took place October 30 from Sacred Heart Church with the participation of the entire congregation in bidding him farewell. All who knew him are asked to remember him in their prayers.
 
ancestry.com - user submitted

Click to enlarge

John Cramer - Line 1

Source - Year: 1860; Census Place: Westphalia, Clinton, Michigan; Roll: M653_540; Page: 0; Image: 95.

John Cramer - Line 31

Source - Year: 1870; Census Place: Westphalia, Clinton, Michigan; Roll: M593_669; Page: 666; Image: 777.

Cramer, John (line 9)

Schemmer, Henry (line 36)

Source - Year: 1880; Census Place: District 2, Lawrence, Tennessee; Roll: T9_1267; Family History Film: 1255267; Page: 320.1000; Enumeration District: 173

William Kramer - line 31

William Wiggerman - line 17

Source - Year: 1900; Census Place: Civil District 2, Lawrence, Tennessee; Roll: T623_1584 Page: 4A; Enumeration District: 50.

John Kramer - line

Source - Nashville American - Jun 13, 1902

Obituary dated 2 November 1903 in Loretto, TN:

On October 28 our dear friend John Kramer died after long and severe suffering, fortified by frequent reception of the Sacraments. He was born in Attenborn in the governmental district of Arnsberg in Prussia. On June 9, 1852, he married Wilhelmina Belke and in the same year came to America, where he lived for a long time in Westphalia, Mich., and then in the year 1872 came to Loretto, Tenn, where he has lived since. He leaves his wife and six children, 42 grandchildren and 3 great grandchildren. The burial took place October 30 from Sacred Heart Church with the participation of the entire congregation in bidding him farewell. All who knew him are asked to remember him in their prayers.

Source - ancestry.com - user submitted

Research notes for John

July 2023 - Major Changes to dates and family

  • I have removed John's middle name WILLIAM. It will not return without some documentation.
  • DOB has changed from 08 May 1828 (headstone) to 03 Jun 1829 as per BAPTISM record.
  • Date of MARRIAGE has changed from 09 Jun 1852 (obit) to 07 Jun 1853 as per MARRIAGE record.
  • Date of IMMIGRATION has changed to 1853. While this is still an estimated guess, most stories mention moving to America "the same year they married".
  • While I had no parents listed, many, many, MANY trees have parents listed as Johann Wilhelm Peter Kramer (1787-1869) and Anna Margaretha Schönenberg (1793-1863). They never made it onto my tree as despite the many trees listing them as John parents, I have yet to find any document to corroborate the claim.
  • "New" parents have been added with links to corroborating documents. (See parents for links.)


(Still July 2023) I'M DONE...
The records are just too convincing. Here's what I believe...
The DOB on John's HS is incorrect. The date of marriage listed in the obit is also incorrect. It's always been my experience that any record that records the date of an event is more likely to be correct the CLOSER it is to said event. That is to say, I believe the DOD to be fine. But the marriage happened 50 years prior and the birth even further. This happens. It's rare, but it happens. I believe it happened here. Especially in light of the fact that I have seen NO OTHER documentation confirming the incorrect dates or contradicting my new dates. If I'm wrong, I'll admit I'm wrong and move on. It is my hope, however, that as I work down this family, I'll hit some DNA match that will confirm my belief. Again, stay tuned...

(July 2023) I'VE BEEN DIGGING...
For argument's sake, I'm working toward the assumption the below WHAT IF is true. So many questions... Where did the middle name of William come from? I got nothing. Kramer vs Cramer? Well, many early census records have John listed as Cramer. This is a non-issue for me - names are known to evolve like that. DOB on headstone? I still got nothing, but I'm really convinced it's wrong. So let's go...

John's FATHER - (notes moved to father)


(June 2023) WHAT IF...
Ok, so this is a culmination of a lot of digging and A LOT of help from my newest genealogical hero, Brigitte. Brigitte is related to John's wife, Wilhelmina Belke. She has been looking into John for me. She hit upon 2 items (listed below) and discovered a birth record and marriage record. The dates are DIFFERENT from what we all have had to this point. Believing this information requires a further belief that much of the American records we have on John are NOT ACCURATE. This would include his headstone -- and that's a tough nut to swallow. But I have to go with what I believe to be true. I believe the headstone is wrong. Wrong DOB that is. I have no reason to doubt the DOD. But what makes this especially hard is that fact that not only is the year wrong (we've all seen that before) but the DAY and MONTH are not correct either. How does that even happen? Well, on my wife's side of the family there was a elderly matriarch who couldn't remember the year, day, or month she was married. It wasn't age, she and her husband simply "didn't care to remember." Not malicious, they simply didn't care. They were married and that's that. Some people just have other things to worry about I guess. Could all this happen? Sure. Did it? I don't know... but I'm going to try to find out.

NEW possible birth record (matches below from family search)
DOB - 03 Jun 1829

NEW likely marriage record (also matches)
DOM - 07 Jun 1853

I have ZERO doubt the above 2 records are for the same person. Is it John? Stay tuned...


Word was received in this city Wednesday of the death of John
Kramer, father of Mrs. H. Schemmer. Mr. Kramer's home was at Loretto, Tenn. He has visited in this city and has many friends here. Mrs. Schemmer is receiving the sympathy of her friends. (RVB - 1903.10.30)

Headstone is in German...it reads...

hier ruht (here rests)
Johannes (John)
Kramer (Kramer)
geboren den (born the)
8 Mai 1828 (8th of May 1828)
gestorben den (died the)
28 Oct. 1903 (28th of Oct. 1903)

??
Name Johannes Cramer
Spouse's Name Wilhelmine Belke
Event Date 07 Jun 1853
Event Place Roemisch-Katholische, Attendorn, Westfalen, Prussia
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JHZH-J3J : accessed 15 October 2015

Possible Alternate Birth Info
Name Johannes Cramer
Gender Male
Christening Date 04 Jun 1829
Christening Place ROEMISCH-KATHOLISCHE,ATTENDORN,WESTFALEN,PRUSSIA
Father's Name Johannes Petrus Cramer
Mother's Name Angela Regina Langenohl

Jun 03
1829
Birth 		Birth of Johannes Kramer
May 19
1834
Age 4 		Death of mother, Angela Langenohl

1853
Age 23 		Immigrated from Germany to USA
Jun 07
1853
Age 24 		Married to Wilhelmina Belke
Jan 27
1855
Age 25 		Birth of child, Anna Kramer
Dec 08
1856
Age 27 		Birth of child, Kathrin Kramer
Oct 21
1859
Age 30 		Birth of child, Mary Kramer
Jun
1860
Age 30 		Lived in Westphalia, Clinton, Michigan (Census)
Oct 21
1862
Age 33 		Birth of child, Clara Kramer
Feb 09
1865
Age 35 		Birth of child, William Kramer
Dec 14
1867
Age 38 		Birth of child, Rosa Kramer
Jun
1870
Age 40 		Lived in Westphalia, Clinton, Michigan (Census)
Sep 02
1870
Age 41 		Birth of child, Mary Kramer
May 19
1880
Age 50 		Death of father, Johann Cramer
Jun
1880
Age 50 		Lived in District 2, Lawrence, Tennessee (Census)
Jun
1900
Age 70 		Lived in Civil District 2, Lawrence, Tennessee (Census)
Oct 28
1903
Age 74 		Death of Johannes Kramer

Home | About | Search | Surname Index | Thanks | Contact | Copyright

© Copyright 2005-2024 A Baby Rhino and Gecko Bros. Productions